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Post by Freiheits Kampfer on Jul 22, 2004 13:50:23 GMT -5
There is not a lot being done, in my eyes, to support the rise of Communism. I have never seen a single pamphlet displaying Communist propoganda. We need to post more on the streets...take old Communist propoganda posters and replace any cryllic text with English (or whatever language your countymen speak) and tape them, staple them, or glue them to the next lampost, bulletin board, or light post you see. We need more for the peope!
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Post by RosaRL on Jul 22, 2004 14:40:03 GMT -5
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Post by kasama on Jul 26, 2004 19:36:23 GMT -5
I agree that more needs doing. Though i don't think recycling old Russian posters will be particularly effective. Where I live I often see RCP flyers, graffitti, posters etc. -- though not nearly enough. And I agree we all need to get more out. both off line, and here online. Personally, I think Bob Avakian's pwerful new video is probably the most important way we have at the moment to promote communism -- in a way that is both deep and fresh. If you haven't seen it, check it out. nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/98262 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2004 0:21:28 GMT -5
If you try and promote "Communism" by promoting your dear leader, it's just not going to work (thankfully). Most people aren't interested in replacing the current bosses with new bosses dressed in red.
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ShineThePath
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"Individualism is Parasitism"
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Post by ShineThePath on Jul 27, 2004 1:41:54 GMT -5
The fact is, it is working. The DVD is selling very well, people are interested in the man and we are approving. Luckily, people still don't take anarchists serious (as they should not) and we are going to lead resistance, not middle class kids from long island, who dress in black.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2004 2:36:57 GMT -5
The fact is, it is working. The DVD is selling very well, people are interested in the man and we are approving. How capitalist of you ;D This reminds me of a this time when someone from the Spartacist League questioned another group's relevance.  I hate to break this to you, but most people who even know of RCP and Avakian don't take you guys seriously at all. I know you guys take yourselves very seriously and are going to get upset, but that's just the plain truth. In my political work, I often encounter people from other groups and sometimes end up in conversatons about various parties. RCP is just about universally thought of as being a cult. You can lead all you want, it's not going to matter much since noone will be following. People just aren't interested in your White Led "Vanguard" and they never will be. Your arrogance is comical. Middle class kids from Long Island? I can't even remember the last time I went to Long Island, but I could count the amount of times I've been there on one hand. I'll try and think about my "middle class" background next time I'm using Krazy Glue to repair the soles of my sneakers (I should probably sew the holes in them as well now that I think about it). |
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Post by RosaRL on Jul 27, 2004 12:57:21 GMT -5
Shinethepath said: Luckily, people still don't take anarchists serious (as they should not) and we are going to lead resistance, not middle class kids from long island, who dress in black. This isn't the right way to view others that are out there and involved in the struggle. Quite frankly, it paints every 'anarchist' the same and uses the imagery that the mainstream media likes to promote about the movement as a whole. And further, who are these 'people' that dont take anarchist seriously? I know I take them quite seriously myself. Many of them are our friends who are out on the front lines of the struggle with us -- willing to make great sacrifices -- although what they put forward will not lead us where we need to go. They should not be written off. Not to mention that there are more than a few former anarchists that have moved on to become communists. It is often a starting point for new people. Also, many communists will be 'middle class kids'!!! Its not like you have to be from a proletarians background to become a communist. In fact, it is the actual conditions is society that affords the better off more of a chance to dig into theory and try to figure out how to change the world... and it is them (by and large) that will actually open things up for the oppressed to be able to come forward. We all came from somewhere. No one was born a Maoist. And going back to the topic of the thread. We all encountered MLM somewhere -- which speaks to the need to get it out much further. I agree with with what Kasama said - "Personally, I think Bob Avakian's pwerful new video is probably the most important way we have at the moment to promote communism -- in a way that is both deep and fresh. If you haven't seen it, check it out."So, if you haven't -- here is the link threeqvideo.comnote to SoR - 'the myth' however has been answered quite completely before and there isnt much else to be said about that. 2changetheworld.info/disc/view.php?site=changetheworld&bn=changetheworld_unitedfront&key=1032460601 |
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ShineThePath
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Post by ShineThePath on Jul 27, 2004 17:07:30 GMT -5
First let me say, yes how capitalist of me to put toghter the numbers and find out the buisness sale of the DVDs and Tapes.
It is funny to think that were all of a sudden a cult. While it is ok for you, SonOfRage, to defend cult leaders like the Dali Lama, and other religious zealots on the basis of "freedom of religion" and "culture". Also the reply about the RCP is irrelevant, because again most people who know anarchism don't take you serious as well. It is funny, when I was in the ISO, Trotskyists and Social-Democrats take the RCP seriously. I took them very seriously, and they won me over to their line. WWP took us serious enough, as well as Michael Parenti. Alan Minsky, and anarchist, seems to take us seriously, as well as the US government. I, myself, took Anarchists to be less serious because of my own personal relationships with them. What the mass media presents is not well off the mark, almost all the Anarchists I know are exactly the same, with the exception of the Classical Anarchists. Even they go too far, some calling for the execution of Rich people in order to solve the problems. And I thought Stalin was brutal? I think the cult many "anarchists" have made around people like Chomsky, is much more laughable.
Also Public Speakouts like the STOP THE POLICE STATE COALITION, which is dominated by Anarchists, Trotskyists, Social-Democrats, and other progressive minded people as well tak RCP serious.
It is funny, once again that we are a "White Led Vanguard". The question is, are Anarchists dominated by African-Americans and other minorities that we are reactionary in this way? I think not, once again Most Anarchists are, can you believe it, WHITE! I myself have known one black anarchist, thats it. Even more thrilling I had the expierence to be in a rich upper class school on a half-scholarship. Most revolutionaries I met there, were White Anarchists, who read Chomsky, and Goldman, and then consorted it all with Nietzche, which I found funny. When I could not afford it anymore, I left to the public schools and found the revolutionaries to be mostly people of what the media calls "Hispanics" reading Lenin, Guevera, Castro, Zapata, Allende, Boliviar, Marti, and Campo. I introduced Gonzalo, Neruda's Poetry, Enriquez, Mao, and information about RIM and the RCP. It was quite more relaxing then Anarchist continual angst, that contiues to make circles and leads no where.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2004 18:02:04 GMT -5
Funny, every ISO member I've met (and I worked in the ISO as an open Anarchist for about 8 months) laughed at any mention of RCP. I heard sarcastic comments like "Oh yeah, Chairman Bob will lead the revolution!" WWP taking you seriously isn't something I would be proud of ;D. You are free to be in a cult if you want, just like the people of Tibet are free to live they way they choose to live, whether we agree with it or not. I've never met or even heard of an Anarchist having a cult around Chomsky. Most I've met are actually pretty critical of some of his views. None of them believe we should spend our time promoting Chomsky nor do they believe he is an irreplacable leader that all should follow. Very unlike the religious fervor "RCP supporters" have for Avakian. I've met plenty of Anarchist people of color (as a matter of fact, there is a group called just that, " Anarchist People of Color"). A prominent Anarchist here in NYC is a former Black Panther, Ashanti Alston. There's an Anarchist person of color I know quite well actually. He's a Puerto Rican who comes from a very working class background. You may know him as well, he posts here as "SonofRage." |
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Post by redstar2000 on Jul 27, 2004 21:58:37 GMT -5
Greg Jackson wrote: Some activists have claimed that RCP members are police provocateurs; while others simply say that party members work just as well as the average provocateur when it comes to splintering fragile ties amongst groups, thus allowing positive campaigns around serious issues to go down in flames.
I cannot see any legitimate political purpose to statements of this nature. Engels was wrong when he did it; Stalin was wrong when he did it; Jackson was also wrong when he did it.
Political criticism, even of the sharpest kind, is one thing. Implying that your political opponents "may be cops" with no evidence to support that is an impermissible tactic...and one that moreover generates doubts about the anecdotal evidence produced for the more direct political criticisms.
Greg Jackson wrote: In "Marxism and Native Americans", edited by Ward Churchill, the RCP criticizes a position taken by American Indian Movement elder Russel Means after a speech he gave at a gathering in the Black Hills of South Dakota in July of 1980. In their essay, the RCP takes issue with Means' rejection of technology and advocacy of cultural nationalism.
Well, the Marxist view is fundamentally internationalist, is it not?
And the rejection of modern technology as a matter of principle is a reactionary position, isn't it?
Perhaps I'm reading more into Jackson than is really there...but, when you consider the title of his article -- Mythology of the White-Led "Vanguard" -- it does strike me that the "white" part bothers him at least as much as the "vanguard" part.
If Avakian and most of the RCP were people of color, would that make the RCP's political line more "acceptable"?
If it is "vanguardism" that Jackson opposes, what difference does the ethnic background of the vanguardists make?
On the other hand, if the RCP is "culturally insensitive" or even "racist"...then who cares what their nominal politics might be? Even a racist "anarchist" is still a racist.
The old RCP Programme said: "...to unite UNDER ITS LEADERSHIP all the forces that can be united against the enemy"
That's a very revealing quotation. What does their new programme say?
Greg Jackson wrote: ...they are incapable today of organizing anything on their own of substance due to a distinct lack of social skills...
The presumption of "incompetence" on the part of one's opponents is always reckless and self-defeating.
"Social skills" can be learned. #nosmileys
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ShineThePath
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Post by ShineThePath on Jul 27, 2004 22:45:57 GMT -5
I think also they missed the fact that the RCP would allow National Self Determination for the African-American Nationality; however we see it as a mistake because a united Socialist Nation would be much stronger then a sperated nation of many. The Communist Party of Nepal is for one calling for a united Socialist South East Asia, and I see this as a right turn, and it is a correct turn.
Unite all who can be united against the Primary Enemy is essential, but the enemy is constantly changing and the primary will be eliminated and replaced by a subordinate. We will have to elimnate that as well.
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ShineThePath
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Post by ShineThePath on Jul 27, 2004 22:58:37 GMT -5
The point SonOfRage is that the mixture of all the revolutionary parties is different, my own expierence has brought me to see no, and I repeat no major solid Minority Anarchist group. Also it is funny, when I use to bash Stalin in the ISO, and I as one claimed we should leave Stalinists in the cold. The ISO members actually checked me, from what I was doing.
It is funny after all, probably they led me to abadon irrational Trotskyism, and look more in detail in Maoism and Leninism. Also it always sat unwell with me as a young lad, who was drifting around the boat of Radical Politics, when another Party pr Group would just blast the other without persuit. That is what turned me off from Sparacticst League, and the Anarchists who attacked NION as a Maoist front, then attacked the Stop The Police Coalition for discrediting "the movement" when they were the only group that was putting themselves on the line every week. So do me a favor let us end stupid Attacks that are based on non-ideological struggle, but is just labeling. If you are to make a point make it through something else besides personal expierence, because everyone has something different. I will do the same.
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Post by kasama on Jul 28, 2004 17:10:14 GMT -5
SoR gave a link to a (discredited and rather shameful) attack on the RCP called "White Led Vanguard."
If I remember correctly, someone on 2CTW did a very detailed exposure of that polemic.
Can someone repost it here?
Because that "WLV" piece gets reposted in various places, we really need to counterpost the exposure of its outdated distortions. (If I remember correctly, the answer shows how the facts are all wrong, and the claims are ridiculous, and the whole "attack" is rooted in distorting thirty-year-old events etc.)
If you know where it is, please post it as its own thread, so we can discuss it. OK?
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Post by MundoQueGanar on Jul 28, 2004 18:22:18 GMT -5
SoR gave a link to a (discredited and rather shameful) attack on the RCP called "White Led Vanguard." If I remember correctly, someone on 2CTW did a very detailed exposure of that polemic. Can someone repost it here? Because that "WLV" piece gets reposted in various places, we really need to counterpost the exposure of its outdated distortions. (If I remember correctly, the answer shows how the facts are all wrong, and the claims are ridiculous, and the whole "attack" is rooted in distorting thirty-year-old events etc.) If you know where it is, please post it as its own thread, so we can discuss it. OK? Got it. |
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Post by ComradeTrotsky on Jul 30, 2004 13:16:50 GMT -5
Also Public Speakouts like the STOP THE POLICE STATE COALITION, which is dominated by Anarchists, Trotskyists, Social-Democrats, and other progressive minded people as well tak RCP serious.
Hahaha...this is to funny.
No one takes the RCP seriously. They may put up with the RCP for a common goal but without a doubt there is much jesting going on behind your back from the anarchists and the trots.
Bob Aviakan has developed his own personality cult. He lives in luxury in France while he has his comrades in America do all the work. As my friend once put it, Bob Avaikan is nothing more than the Borg queen.
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